Audio Transcript Podcast Episode 52

Over the past 9 months at The Center, we’ve been learning how to lead like Jesus. Week after week, we’ve studied everything from how Jesus managed risk to how Jesus navigated conflict and built an organization that stood the test of time.

We’ve learned there isn’t any leadership attribute or area of we are trying to grow in as a leader that Jesus is not the preeminent example of.

Jesus is the greatest leader that ever lived is the supreme example of everything we need in orders to better lead and serve others.

As we’ve learned what it means to lead like Jesus, we’ve learned what a privilege it is to serve others and that is a reward — so in this podcast we want to cover rewards more deeply.

This brings us to our question for today: Howard, what are these rewards of leading like Jesus?

Howard: Our minds cannot think or imagine all that is rewarded to us, but we are going to cover 3 of those rewards today.

Before we do that, I want to recap something you said.

The Preeminent Example

First, people try to learn from all sorts of people about how to be a better leader, when the person they really should be studying is Jesus. He is the preeminent example of every leadership attribute we’re looking for. Everything we are trying to get better at, Jesus is the ultimate example of. We proved this by studying 32 leadership attributes and topics in our groups this year, and demonstrating how Jesus was the ideal example of all them.

Now, I want to flip the tables around and ask Andrew and Carter some questions. This question is for both of you, but Carter’s going to answer first.

What did you learn this semester?

Lessons Learned

Carter: There’s a lot I learned this semester at The Center, but one lesson that was impactful to me came from one of our guest speakers — Hamp Holcomb.

Hamp has a great sense of humor and one of the things we said was, “There is nothing more disgusting than an adult male whiner.” And, after laughing for a few seconds, I realized that I’m an adult male whiner.

Later on in the presentation, Hamp said, “Circumstances don’t define who we are. Circumstances reveal who we are.” And, I think that in most circumstances the person revealed when I’m whining is rather gross — especially at work.

This semester I learned how to stop and identify those moments when I’m inwardly groaning about the work I’m doing, and, rather than continue to groan, respond with gratitude, thanksgiving, and worship. Learning how to do this on a regular basis has been very impactful and transformative for how I work.

Howard: Amazing! And, that’s perfectly consistent with Ken Blanchard’s book, Lead Like Jesus. In one of his diagrams, Ken shows how transformation must start with ourselves. We have to receive the gift and apply it to our own life to consistently lead others with it. We have to stop our own whining before we tell someone else to stop whining! That comment from Hamp did shock a few people in the audience, but, after the initial shock subsided, they realized how true Hamp’s point is.

Now, Andrew, you just joined us full time at The Center. What are some things you learned this semester? How did you learn to lead like Jesus?

Andrew: Howard, there were a few weeks during the semester when you talked about Dallas Willard. Specifically, you talked about 3 things — vision, intention, and means. Vision is the purpose of work. The intention is what we desire to accomplish. And, the means are the tools we use or things that facilitate accomplishing the work.

In one of those lessons, you said that our greatest means or resource for doing good work is seeing God as our greatest strength — abiding in Jesus. John 15 says that, “If you abide in me and I in you, and if you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing.” This has rung true for me over the past few months.

Leading like Jesus is learning how to continually abide in Him, and allowing God to be at work in me and through me for His name’s sake — rather than my own strength and plans.

Howard: And you’ve had some pretty big change in plans! So how does that practically apply to going from working at a church to working with people in the marketplace? We are all part of the big ‘C’ Church, but you worked on staff at a church for a long time. Now, you are helping people use their gifts in a different context, retirement. What’s it like to start over like that? And, how does what you’ve learned apply to someone who has switched jobs in the last few months?

Andrew: Yeah, so actually a year earlier this week, I was wrapping up 17 years of service on a church staff, a church that we still attend every week.

In that context of a thriving church, my audience was provided to me week by week and day by day. And, now, at The Center I’m providing a service based on the needs of individuals, and I’m helping them live a great commission focused retirement. Which means engaging a lot of people by going out and talking to them about what I’m doing, and hoping that is something they want to pursue doing. I want to help them transition their retirement mindset to a mindset focused on the great commission.

So how does all that relate to the rewards of leading like Jesus? Well, one way is that I’m tempted — more than ever — to believe it’s my efforts producing the fruit in people’s lives. In short, it’s easy to believe my hard work is what is producing change and transformation in people’s lives. However, this isn’t true. The reward of leading like Jesus is I’m pursuing people while hoping and praying that God will do immeasurably more than I could ever ask or imagine. And, asking God to keep me anchored to Him and abiding in Him so that anything that comes out of the work I’m doing is a result of His good, pleasing, and perfect will in my life. So that at the end of the day I can confidently say none of this would have happened without God moving and at work in my life.

Howard: He’s above, behind, below, and within you all the time. Knowing that gives immeasurable confidence.

Worldly Leadership

So now I’m going to recap what we’ve learned this semester at The Center, but before we recap I’m going to contrast what Andrew said with the way many of us we’re trained to think about work.

Most of us were trained to believe the rewards of work are money, recognition, and power. These rewards increase as an individual moves up the corporate hierarchy; so you should be moving up all the time. Moving up the hierarchy requires self-promotion and self-protection. This self-promotion and self-protection leads to fear, and, in turn, pride and fear dominate our leadership style.

This leadership style based on fear and pride is a stark contrast to how Jesus led and how Jesus teaches us to lead. Leading like Jesus shifts the focus to God’s glory and the flourishing of others by meeting their needs. Andrew, you covered this well in your response to my earlier question.

Receive To Lead

In the middle of our semester, we had easter! And, another thing we learned is we receive every gift we have from Him. The most important gift you have from God is being a child of God and knowing you are His. So it’s important that we cover the gospel —  even when we are discussing temporary rewards.

When we personally receive the person and work of Jesus Christ through faith, we receive 3 things — peace, purpose, and power. The peace of knowing God’s got our back. The purpose of new life and the command to to and be a witness as we make disciples. And, most importantly, He gives us the power to actually do it! When we get to the end of ourselves, like what Andrew just talked about, we realize God’s the one who empowers us to do what He’s called us to do.

All that is connected to salvation. If you want to learn more about peace, purpose, and power, scroll down to the resources and click on our previous podcast called, How Do I Get Unstuck And Move Forward With Purpose?

Once we are saved, it’s important we go and live out our peace, purpose, and power now, today and every day. Taking just the purpose part of that equation, and leading like Jesus with purpose leads to 3 other gifts. These gifts allow us to have more joy now, more deep and meaningful relationships, and prepares us for heaven better.

Specifically, these are the 3 rewards are joy and confidence, deep relationships, and knowing Jesus better. First, when we lead like Jesus we have the  joy and confidence of living on purpose. We know we get reaffirmed by that. The money, power, and recognition caves in on itself because it’s about me, me, me. Moving that to leading like Jesus by serving others leads to confidence. Secondly, we are going to know others better. And, thirdly, we are going to know Jesus better.

Joy & Confidence

So the first one — the joy and confidence of living on purpose. In Hebrews it says don’t throw away your confidence, which is a great reward (Hebrews 10:35).

Some of us who are athletes experience this in sports. If you hit a golf ball off the club perfectly, it feels really good. That only happens to me once out of every 4,000 swings, but it still felt good. In that moment, you realize that’s how that club is supposed to be used. Hitting a shot in basketball or throwing a great pass is similar. You can also experience this in music when you hit a perfect note.

So there are moments in life where you experience this, but leadership is the same way. In leadership we can know we are doing the right thing and we get confirmed by leading well and joy in doing it more.

We’ve been covering the Working Genius, but you can experience joy in leadership regardless of your Working Genius. When you wonder new possibilities for the good of others and give it to them, you receive joy. When you invent a solution that improves others lives, you receive joy. When you discern a product that is good for the company, its stakeholders, and society, you receive joy. When you galvanize a team toward the mission of a company, you receive joy. When you enable others to succeed by giving people what they need to do their work better, you receive joy. And, lastly, when you tenaciously finish a task you receive joy.

All this creates confidence, and confirms you’re doing what you should be. Some of these things bring some people more joy than others — that’s what we learn from the Working Genius. If you want to discover your Working Genius and debrief it with us, there’s a link down in the resources at the bottom of this page. Each of us has a job that requires us to use all 6 genius’, but you were created in a way such that one or two of them bring you a lot of joy.

As we close out this first reward, here’s one more supporting scripture:

"If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." – 1 Corinthians 3:14

Know Others Better

The second reward we receive is we know others better. If we lead like Jesus, we are going to have deeper and more meaningful relationships. Try this in your personal relationships. Try this in your family relationships. It’s true for coworkers too.

Ken Blanchard in his book, Lead Like Jesus, says it like this:

“The rewards of love based leadership are long lasting relationships and an incredible transformation that brings glory to the one you follow. This kind of leadership requires a model that transforms you as well as those you influence.”

What Ken is saying is that when you help others succeed, you are going to have reciprocity. When you work on something hard together, you grow deeper in your relationships. As you struggle to finish a work project with others, you get deeper relationships with them. Working hard on something together and providing them with a solution that is love helps them know you better and vice versa. There will be parts you mess up and you’ll have to say you are sorry! Have you ever had do do that Andrew?

Andrew: Yes, I’ve had to apologize many times  in my life. My wife can tell you about some of those.

Howard: Even when you had the right motive?

Andrew: Oh yeah, absolutely.

Howard: But then the style’s wrong.

Andrew: The intention could be great, but the means didn’t match what was needed at the time and so it’s good to apologize, reconcile, and move forward.

Howard: Hmm, this worked Tuesday, but isn’t working on Thursday. We can test what works. We can test if apologizing works.

Know Jesus Better

Thirdly, you are going to know Jesus better. The ultimate reward to leading like Jesus is knowing Jesus better. You get a deeper and more meaningful relationship with Jesus, right now!

When things go well, you see how your gifts were given to you by Jesus, your savior. I was able to galvanize my team toward the goal. Thank you, Jesus. Now I know a little more about what it’s like to be like Him.

What about times where you try, even with good intentions, and it doesn’t work out? This happens at home and at work. Maybe you’re mistreated or misunderstood. Jesus is the greatest leader who ever lived, but He’s also the most misunderstood person who ever lived. More people have wrongly debated about Jesus than any other historical figure. He’s a rock of offense! Jesus was mistreated for doing the right thing.

One thing we get to do that Jesus didn't is apologize. We do stuff wrong all day and we get to apologize. That’s the only place where we really cannot model Him, but we can in everything else.

So when you recommend the right solution for the right reason and they reject you, you can know you’re right and still have to be patient. You then know what it’s like to suffer. It might cost you some time, money, and pride to help someone and then they reject you.

Here’s a supporting verse for that from the sermon on the mount:

“Rejoice and be exceeding glad, for great is your reward in Heaven; for so persecuted they the prophets who were before you.” – Matthew 5:12

He’s telling the crowd to wait and see how He’s going to be persecuted. They’re going to kill Jesus for loving them perfectly!

So far in America there haven't been many martyrs in business for leading like Jesus. We have it pretty good, but either way we have to do what Andrew said earlier — we have to abide in Jesus. Apart from Jesus, we can do nothing.

“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.” – John 15:5-8

This isn’t a magic pill. This isn’t a performance gospel. This is getting so close to the one who loves you the most that you can see clearly solutions for others and how to love them.

Then, not only are you going to know Him, but you’re going to become like Him. And, this verse gives us hope to do this right now. “And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.” – 2 Corinthians 3:18

It’s all from the Spirit. That’s where real freedom is! As we gaze at Jesus and get up to meet with Him in the morning and throughout the day, we get to know His character and display His character in our own lives.

We’ve been looking at the life of Tim Keller, an amazing servant of God. I’ve learned so much about the gospel and God’s word from him. We can’t really close out this podcast without touching on something Tim said in a recently published video.

In a short video, Tim talked about Jacob wrestling with God. Jacob got a limp from wrestling with God and wants to see His glory. Here’s what Tim says about this passage and work, “I’ve never been more moved than when I realized the fulfillment we’re looking for in building skyscrapers, in work, in having wonderful spouses, in having lots of children, and making money — the blessing we are looking for is actually in the face of God. Tim is seeing God’s face now. The day before he passed, Tim talked about how he wants to see God’s face and now he is.

So here’s what we do know. When we do see God, we will be like Him. We shall see Him as He is, and He will see us and everything will be perfectly clear (1 John 3:2).

Our brother Tim is seeing God’s face now and so are the many people you know you have lived this way. So God is inviting us to join Him in our work now. To know God better and see Him face to face, maybe even tomorrow! Or maybe in 70 years. He is inviting us right now into the Life — that is the Way, the Truth and the Life.

I encourage you to accept the invitation to follow Jesus, today. To lead more like Jesus, today. Then, daily, as you lead others, you will know Him better.

Resources

⁠How Do I Get Unstuck And Move Forward With Purpose?⁠

⁠Know Your Working Genius⁠

Hebrews 10:35

1 Corinthians 3:14

2 Corinthians 3:18

Matthew 5:12

John 15:5-7